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Post by BackinBlack on Aug 10, 2016 22:20:56 GMT -5
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Post by mr. excellent on Aug 10, 2016 23:13:44 GMT -5
Lot of people worried about there being multiple 'villains' in this piece. History being on the negative side, what with Spider-man 3 and TASM 2. However, it's not much concern that Thor Ragnarok has a few notable villains or that Black Panther will have 2, and with good reason. We can imagine the structure of these films supporting multiple villains. I contend that Spider-man can do the same. Fans (maybe even us to a degree) are so used to the Spider-man movie formula that has dictated that the only decent to great entries are the ones that focused on one villain. We're so used to it that our alarms are set off when we hear there will be multiple baddies. Far as I'm concerned, the writers just need to change their approach. So far, both the Raimi trilogy and the Webb duology shrunk Spider-man's world by making everything 'super' or 'sci-fi' in the franchise related to Peter Parker. We're talking direct connections. By design, they wrote themselves in a corner. Fortunately, the sand box is already there, so we shouldn't have to worry about that this time... hopefully... guys?
It'll be okay, right?!?!??
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Post by BackinBlack on Aug 11, 2016 8:51:54 GMT -5
It's Marvel. We'll be okay.
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Post by Webber3000 on Aug 11, 2016 13:42:16 GMT -5
I wouldn't have blind trust; they did give us Iron Man 3 and Thor: The Dark World after all.
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Post by mr. excellent on Aug 11, 2016 14:17:31 GMT -5
True. At the very least, I don't think the problems will lie in there being multiple villains.
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Post by BackinBlack on Aug 11, 2016 18:33:50 GMT -5
Well even the weakest Marvel films are still better than the worst comic books movies.
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Post by Webber3000 on Aug 11, 2016 19:19:46 GMT -5
Sure, but I would argue that TASM2 is better than the worst Marvel movies.
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Post by mr. excellent on Aug 11, 2016 19:47:35 GMT -5
You would!
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Post by Webber3000 on Aug 11, 2016 20:01:54 GMT -5
I know you're still puzzled about why I don't hate TASM2, but wouldn't you agree?
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Post by mr. excellent on Aug 12, 2016 0:00:40 GMT -5
The structure of TASM 2 isn't too problematic. 'Universe' building grievances aside, it has some interesting themes running through it, as you've stated in the past. The execution on the other hand... I cringed multiple times while watching the film. I can't watch it any more without skipping most of Electro's scenes, as well as that of the German scientist and the Green Goblin. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever cringed while watching a Marvel Studios film. The worse of Marvel Studios films may be very thin in the plot and character motivation department, but I have enough fun with them that I can get lost in the moment. TASM 2 made me care so much for Peter's personal struggles, more than any film in the MCU has done for their characters actually... and then it ripped me right out of the moment again and again and again. :S
At the end of the day, I'd rather have a semi-formulaic movie that struts than a TASM 2. Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone over any MCU relationship though. Same goes for DC and a lot of other straight up rom-coms. They were a wonderful couple.
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Post by Webber3000 on Aug 12, 2016 12:47:47 GMT -5
Yeah, I can agree with that, though our priorities aren't exactly at the same place. Marvel's weakest movies are bland and forgettable, but their worst moments aren't as bad as The Amazing Spider-Man 2's. That said, while they don't make up for the bad ones, TASM2's best moments are truly amazing, and - that's where our opinions differ - they raise the movie above and beyond the bar set by, say, Thor: The Dark World. To me, a film that offers a significant amount of quality scenes and themes always beats a forgettable movie.
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Post by mr. excellent on Aug 12, 2016 17:16:49 GMT -5
Fair enough. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, a lot of people really didn’t appreciate that corporate sabotage, global take that the Marc Webb era was doing. I did, and those parts were surprisingly well acted, choreographed and directed. DeHaan was delightfully coming undone in that movie, and were it not for them fumbling the ball with his Goblin persona, he would’ve been an all timer for me. The best parts of TASM 2, in general, for me are among the best CBM moments period. Peter and Gwen's break up scene at the beginning of the film? Unrivaled. The scene following that with Spider-man enjoying the city? Best Spider-man moments for me. Aunt May and Peter talking his parents? Unrivaled. The web swinging the first 10 minutes of the film? Inspiring.
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Post by mr. excellent on Aug 22, 2016 1:00:22 GMT -5
I've never seen her in anything. I know she's an actress on some Disney channel stuff, but has acted in other things. Maybe she has the chops for the part? Heck, hopefully they write MJ in a way that feels like a complete character, similar to the way they wrote Emma Stone's Gwen Stacy.
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Jul 19, 2010 10:56:13 GMT -5
Spazz
Renowned Contributor
Posts: 871
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Post by Spazz on Aug 23, 2016 13:07:54 GMT -5
Yeah I mean, I honestly don't know a lot about MJ or her character (or rather I don't remember) but, I guarantee you none of her key arcs rely on her being white. (Some of them may even be made more powerful and realistic by her being of color.) Also to make a quick side note: Zendaya has had red hair before. Dyed, sure but like, that can happen. It's not like the red is completely out of the question, if it's really that important. I also made the point that people have been getting really uppity about characters changing recently but, the very nature of these stories and characters is that they're told a million different ways all the time. Sure they typically stick to a few key details in personality but, a lot of these changes are just skin/hair tone and having nothing to do with what makes the character who they really are. (also the source material is really, really old and has had hundreds, if not thousands of different writers, artists, and universes. Why not embrace something a little different now and again eh?) Somehow that seems to be enough for some people though. Which kind of segues into another larger issue at work here: a lot of people are up in arms about 1 white to black character change but, Hollywood has whitewashed everything they can for all of eternity (even to this day) and the same people don't bat an eye at it. There's a whole big discussion about representation surrounding this. Also, granted, I honestly don't know anything about Zendaya (that's why I'm mostly commenting on the social issues) but, I feel like this is a good chance for her. Maybe she'll be great, who knows. I'm honestly not super invested in this stuff anymore, at least as much as I used to be. You know I'll always at least feel some type of way about the social issues at work though. (because there usually are some) That's kind of become my thing I guess
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Post by mr. excellent on Aug 23, 2016 17:31:27 GMT -5
To comment on what you said Lopli, I completely agree. It drove me crazy to listen to the commentary people had on MJ when Spider-man 3 came out. It was the most I'd ever seen the phrase "whiny b****" used in a thread at that point. When I watch it, I don't see her as being selfish. I see her as a normal person in a relationship who wants fair communication: to listen and to be listened to. That's how relationships work, it's give and take. Peter couldn't stop talking about himself, even the night of his proposal. Perhaps it wasn't entirely the fault of the way the MJ character was written in SM 3. Kirsten Dunst has a lot of 'haters', and when you don't like an actor/actress, being nitpicky is par for the course. Seriously, I know a lot of people who don't like Keira Knightley to this day, so everything she does is the worse to them: "she's purses her lips", "she makes this or that face", "her accent is annoying", and so forth. Like seriously? Who gives a s***? But that's just opinions, and we just agree to disagree.
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