|
Post by BackinBlack on Apr 4, 2016 22:32:41 GMT -5
Been doing some thinking. WB may be playing it cool, like saying they're not concerned with the second weekend drop, but the Suicide Squad reshoots kind of say other wise. I'm sure they don't want to start from scratch, so they'll need to re-evaluate what they're doing.
For one thing, there's Zack Snyder. It's clear that he has a plan story wise, which is why I don't want him gone. But with his style, apparently people either love him or hate him. So what if they added on a co-director for Justice League, to kind of reel him in if things get "too dark"? George Miller might be a good fit. He's had success with Fury Road, was tapped for Justice League a decade ago, rumored to direct a new Superman movie, and is already on as a producer.
Justice League is still slated to start filming next week, which brings me to my next point. If WB is going to be making some changes based on BVS, maybe they would benefit from shuffling the schedule around a little for their DC films. Here's an updated schedule I would come up with: * Wonder Woman on November 17, 2017 (at least this way they would avoid competing with Transformers 5, which was a dick move on their part for picking the same date as Wonder Woman) * Justice League Part One on March 16, 2018 (pushing it back a little would give them time to make changes without rushing) * The Batman on July 27, 2018 (rumors are that they're wanting to get an Affleck solo film out as soon as possible now) * The Flash on April 5, 2019 * Aquaman on June 4, 2019 * Shazam on April 3, 2020 * Justice League Part Two on June 19, 2020 * Cyborg and Green Lantern Corps in 2021
|
|
|
Post by Webber3000 on Apr 7, 2016 15:38:43 GMT -5
I could no longer resist the temptation. I went ahead an watched it... And what a movie, I tell you!
It's not without its (very few) qualities, but boy oh boy... Every one of its positives is completely wasted. It's one of the worst thought-out, most ill-advised, and messiest productions I have ever seen. It's just awful! It did one good thing for me though: it gave me appreciation for the quality of the MCU. At least, Marvel's movies are consistent and somewhat cohesive. The DCEU seemed to lose itself within a single film.
|
|
|
Post by Caveboy0 on Apr 10, 2016 16:52:14 GMT -5
Hey I remembered my passsword!
I've burned through most of my disappointment towards the film, but I'll explain my more thought out opinions.
So I used to think that I'll love this movie regardless of its film quality because I've wanted this for so long. I'll just have a great time and enjoy it! So I buy the tickets opening night because I just can't wait for others to tell me about it I have to see it myself! So I'm there and I'm ready. the crowd is thin but growing closer to showing. I couldn't help but think about the crowded theaters that Star Wars had, bad example I know, but even Iron Man 2 had a sold out showing when I first saw it.
I've talked a lot about this film with Webber and I think what we agreed on is that this film has no sense of story telling. The film respectfully opens strong, although I've grown deaf to Batman's origins, I can recognize a well constructed scene and artistic liberties with the visuals. Overall the introduction of Batman has this elemental, horror design. Beautiful, dour, and gothic. Very Batman indeed. We also have the inclusion of Bruce Wayne's perspective on the events of Man of Steel, a smart choice and bold way to scewer Superman's actions in the film. Bruce has a rage that I feel is justified and absolutely drives his judgement. In the end though Batman's branding of a thug seems off note. Neither artistic nor truly dark, more comical and nonsensical. The news story claiming the brand is a death sentence in prison leads to only more confusion. Batman turns from self righteous and compassionate 3 years ago to cruel and insane with no mention from anyone about this change. The idea of good men becoming cruel is a fantastic theme, but batman is never shown to be a good man. From the point of Bruce saving that little girl onward Batman is cruel, violent, and reckless with his use of lethal force. Superman does not fair much better. We are shown his strength and power in the ways they destroy and hurt others. Bruce's employee loses his legs and his spirit in the attack and vandalizes a monument dedicated to Superman, but with such a controversy around the character how can we believe they would honor him? We are told that metropolis loves him, but we are never introduced to a strong optimism from the city or the film in general. Lawrence Fishburne as Perry White is the only actor in the film that doesn't seem to be fighting some deep depression. He has a levity and charm completely missing in Superman, usually a paragon of good. The end of Man of Steel hinted at an optimism around the corning, but this film instead regresses the character back to uncertainty and adds elements of apathy. Superman is shown watching, silent, and spiritually dead. His heroic feats largely lack any contact with people. When he saves that girl from the fire there is no bittersweet moment or kind words. Instead they praise him like a god with hands extended and Superman avoids their touch and looks away as if he's ashamed. Even if he did speak he wouldn't understand them. There is this strong biblical implication with Superman. He's more than just a Christ figure, but God himself. Nobody speaks to God anymore. If only the film had any sense of subtlety that could have been another interesting layer. At times this film is very ponderous and introspective, but largely exists on the surface. The film's existential issues with Superman are never consistent or logical. Take for example his opening scene. A convoluted scene where Lois is trapped between a War Lord and some CIA coup against them in order to frame Superman. How exactly was this plan supposed to succeed? The men died of bullet wounds and Lois is a witness. A flimsy event to base a witch hunt against Superman. The one bright spot from all that is the Senator played by the excellent Holly Hunt. She is presented as reasonable, but skeptical. The way she rebuffs Lex's plans to bring Kryptonite into the country is fantastic. She's a strong character that bridges all the thoughts and ideas this film has into the story, but like a microcosm of the film her arc ends without resolution or even a single exchange, but an explosion. In a profoundly cold and sad moment of senseless violence Superman is gone. He leaves behind with a parting word with Lois "I don't know if anyone stays good in this world" probably the least Superman thing ever said by the character. This film takes the idea of Superman and drags it through the mud. Sure Batman is amplified in his characterization, but this Superman is weakened not in strength but in his spirit. Why should there be a Superman? I don't know I can't remember and the movie doesn't find an answer.
Tying these two characters together is of course Lex Luthor played... boldly by Jesse Eisenberg. I appreciate the performance. I think he nails what he was trying to do, but holy shit he was uncomfortable to watch. Every scene was odder than the last. He's spastic, annoying, and unstable. He's far from the Lex we know, which I'm open to, but he just doesn't work. He has several monologues that trail off into non sequitur and talks so much but reveals very little about his motivations beyond comparing Superman to the Devil/God. His plan is both complicated and subtle and just overtly simplistic. "Nudging" Batman towards hating Superman and simply kidnapping Superman's mother. The entire name of the film is built on this confrontation and Batman's side is overtold and Superman's is undeveloped. Superman's initial confrontation with Batman was awesome and I wish they built on Superman intimidating Batman to stand down much like DKR. Superman spirals into a sort of depressed apathy after that meeting though. The bombing of the court house takes up more of his mind than Batman. If the character lost interest in the fight then why should I care? the film has 2 hours to convince me why they are fighting makes sense and like a little kid procrastinating for a test they cram it all in the end.
So the title fight, was it worth it? Not really in my opinion. Visually it has some eye catching moments and some surprises, such as the sonic cannons, but the flow of the action just never hooked me. Superman clearly wasn't committed to the fight and when he lost his powers due to kryptonite he looked foolish and even more of the fool flying into the kryptonite smoke again. Batman going out for blood gave it a brutal intensity, but overall I just felt like Batman was a kid fighting his dad. It just isn't a competition and Batman gets the upper hand because... Batman. There is something to say about Superman that his last words are to save his mother Martha and I admit I was some how convinced by it. I know people make fun of it, but I thought it was a very intense moment that would throw Batman back. He's absolutely fueled by his parents death more so than any other Batman before him. The problem is how quickly they just resolve their fight to the death. Getting these characters together to finally talk would be really interesting, but for the sake of rushing to another climatic battle scene they just make fast friends.
At this point I'm exhausted and Batman's solo fight scene was indeed one of the best Batman fights ever, but it just so effect heavy that it kind of feel like a video game. Even more so in the final battle with Doomsday. Wonder Woman is badass, but I just don't get how she "steals the show" her story is not even worth mentioning because its nonexistent. Her few lines of dialogue range from okay to very wooden. The movie could have been an utter waste, but they pull one last surprise and kill Superman because they didn't spend enough time tearing him down. All this pointless pondering and talking and this grand resolution to all these questions is Superman dying to kill a monster created to kill him. Such a fucking unearned finale to a worthless movie. This movie asks questions too big to answer with no levity or intelligence. The movie takes such a simple plot, Batman Steals Kryptonite from Lex to kill Superman only to realize that Superman is just a man, and streeeetch it into 2 1/2 hours with extended death of the Waynes and extended funeral of Superman and extended montages of Superman. Convoluting Lex's role in Batman's story. Including Wonder Woman to extend Batman's plot finding the Kryptonite. Including a second battle after the first battle. Dream sequence to a possible dark future. All of that is filler! A waste of time avoiding making any strong effort in allowing me to invest in these characters. I don't believe in Batman's mission or method and I don't believe in Superman. I don't like these heroes. Of the possible ways this story could have played out, this is the worst version.
|
|
|
Post by mr. excellent on Apr 27, 2016 19:41:44 GMT -5
I went back and watched the movie a second time. While my commentary on the film isn't much changed, the way I felt leaving the theater very much did. Though I'm shocked to say this now after my very distinct disappointment from the first viewing, I enjoyed the film. I'll take it a step further, it was shaping up to be a damn good movie up until Eisenberg uttered the words "the red capes are coming, the red capes are coming!" Following that, there were still some decent parts. I enjoyed watching the world debate about Superman's place in the world as a force for "good", and I certainly enjoyed Ben Affleck's turn as Bruce Wayne throughout the entire film. His run-ins with Diana landed well with me again. Aside from the Doomsday plot and future Justice League set up, I think my only criticism of the film are Superman and the Lexcorp bullet conspiracy (which still doesn't work too well IMO). So while I'll spend the rest of this write up detailing my critiques of Superman's treatment in the film, I have to say I actually liked the movie the second time around. Also, I respect what Eisenberg did in the film, even though I don't think it worked too well with the final product. Like Michael Shannon, he really went for it (in Shannon's case it worked), and I don't see that too often in these types of films. Anyway, my problems with Superman...
My friends and I debated on the larger significance of what Snyder was trying to get across about our Man of Steel. I contended that Superman has a God complex being forcefully thrust upon him by everyone else. He's slowly losing his place as another person among the human population, and is becoming detached to the troubles of our world similar to Dr. Manhattan in Snyder's Watchmen. My friends contended that Superman wasn't so much being given the Dr. Manhattan treatment as much as he was just severely depressed at half the planet's rejection of him. To my point, I submit to you that the entire first half of the film Superman appears as though he's somewhere else. "I should've seen it Lois" in reference to the bomb on capital hill. When she counters to console him, he replies "maybe I didn't see it because I wasn't looking". He certainly looks detached, saving children from burning buildings, not even looking at the kids he's rescuing. Whether he's pulling a battle ship through the snow or rescuing astronauts in a failed launch mission, he just looks distracted. I don't say this as a criticism, in fact, I applaud this take. Regardless of who's right (my friends or myself), our problem was with the execution.
Unlike Snyder's take on Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen, we don't get to see the situation from Superman's point of view. Dr. Manhattan was able to narrate his entire backstory, and through it we got to know him pretty well, though there were only a few scenes of Dr. Manhattan as a regular human. We saw him at work with colleagues and at play with two romantic interests. As a matter of fact, we saw the beginnings, middles, and ends of both romances. It seems as though we're just supposed to take it for granted that Superman and Lois live normal lives together. As a fan of these types of movies, sure, I'm used to that. But when you're trying so hard to humanize your Superman (in Man of Steel) to set up that dichotomy of him as a Jesus/Moses figure, you have to actually show the things that make him human. His personal life is one of those things, and it was one of the reasons I enjoyed Man of Steel as much as I did. I loved following Superman around as he traveled the globe trying to do good as a nameless stranger, walked into a church to speak with a priest, or talked to his adopted mom and dad. When you like a character for who they are, you don't just leave him/her behind and never revisit them. I felt that they hardly expanded on anything set up from the first film, and to my surprise, they seemed to confuse the idea of Superman with what Jonathan Kent wanted for his son. Jonathan's goal was never for Clark to be the world's savior. He died because of that belief. Finally, Superman's death is totally wasted. You can't cash a check if you haven't put the hours in, you know? "Superman, we hardly knew ya!" There's a lot of big, interesting ideas that are being approached in the character study, that aren't actually fleshed out in any satisfying way. When you give me something that promising, it's even more disappointing when it doesn't deliver. That's my problem with Superman in this movie.
|
|
|
Post by BackinBlack on May 3, 2016 16:41:46 GMT -5
This is hilarious.
|
|